Wednesday, August 08, 2012

"Homicide House" Has Its History Erased

The ongoing saga of the Silver Spring's internationally infamous "Homicide House" continues to fascinate me. After being on the market for an extended period of time, the house ultimately sold for just $330K this past February. If one disregards the house's disturbing history, this would have to be considered a good bargain for that neighborhood, as the property was recently assessed for $507K and its "Zestimate" is $459K.

Interestingly, the house was almost immediately back on the market, with an asking price of hundreds of thousands more that for what it was purchased - perhaps in an attempt to flip the property for a quick profit. But how would you expect to a long-unsold property for a significantly higher price when a Google search of the address by a prospective buyer would return thousands of references to the tragic events which have taken place there there over the years? Easy - you whitewash its history by changing the address! Meet 9335 Columbia Blvd., the house formerly known as 9337 Columbia Blvd. Now 9337 simply doesn't exist - like the 13th floor of many highrise buildings. A search of the new address returns nothing more than the home's appearance on a variety of real estate sites.

While this is unarguably a clever marketing ruse, if successful it will likely result in some very upset new owners. While by law sellers are not required to disclose crimes that were committed in a property, inevitably any buyer will eventually learn the history of their new house and when they do they are likely to be distressed - and angry. This is apparently what happened when the late Brian Betts initially learned of the double murder that occurred in his home in 2002.

The seller does appear to be motivated, dropping the price in increments of $10-20K a month since the property was put back on the market. Of course, when you only paid $330K, you're still looking at a healthy profit at the current price (it's now @ $479K).

It will be interesting to see at what price this house eventually sells. The optimal situation will be that it is purchased by an unsuperstitious buyer with full knowledge of the house's history who feels they are getting a lot for their money. It's a decent house and it should have someone living there - having it sit there empty for years is a creepy reminder of its past.


Anonymous said...

Interesting. So they legally changed the number of the house? People can do that? I guess that must be the case since if they are making a purposeful typo of the address in the title to hide the history from prospective owners that would surely be fraud.

Anonymous said...

As a realtor I can tell you, that you have to disclose if a crime had been committed there. What you can not disclose is whether a suicide occurred there.

RoseAG said...

I would be less spooked by that house if it had been suicide.

Sligo said...

According to what I've read, you don't have to disclose past crimes. No one ever told Brian Betts about the earlier murders before he bought the house.

Anonymous said...

Maryland law does not require realtors to disclose whether a death has occurred in a property, whether suicide or homicide.

Anonymous said...

you provided a vague link. with no source of citation.

thats like saying here's your

try again

Anonymous said...

Is the house haunted?

Nancy said...

Let's hope a google search by prospective buyers turns up this blog post to alert them to the true history of the house.

Sligo said...

I managed to track down the applicable law using that LexisNexis link. I'm no lawyer, but I believe this means they DON'T have to disclose:


Md. REAL PROPERTY Code Ann. § 2-120 (2012)

§ 2-120. Disclosure of material fact or latent defect

(a) Matters not constituting material fact or latent defect. -- Under this title, it is not a material fact or a latent defect relating to property offered for sale or lease that:

(1) An owner or occupant of the property is, was, or is suspected to be:

(i) Infected with human immunodeficiency virus; or

(ii) Diagnosed with acquired immunodeficiency syndrome; or

(2) A homicide, suicide, accidental death, natural death, or felony occurred on the property.

(b) Immunity. -- An owner or seller of real property or the owner's or seller's agent shall be immune from civil liability or criminal penalty for failure to disclose a fact contained in subsection (a) of this section.

David Rotenstein said...

Awesome Silver Spring history post!

Anonymous said...

i think its a shame. I should be told if the previouse owner had HIV or AIDS. i certanly wouldnt want to live there.

That'd prevent me from buying. but then again its not PC to rail against them..damn pc liberals

also, apparently its illegal to tell a potential buyer of local crime rates. you would think that would be relevant information. i know ID find that relevant

Anonymous said...

to Anonymous at 11:09- how does someone get AIDS or HIV through a real estate transaction? Would you have the same reaction if the previous inhabitant had tuberculosis?

Anonymous said...

Please don't feed the trolls.

Anonymous said...

umm..TB is treatable, so no i wouldnt have the same reaction.

Anonymous said...

I keep reading about what a nice area that is. Isn't that where Wheaton starts? Not the best neighborhood, shady people all over Forrest Glen metro and that pedestrian bridge is a drug dealing mecca. Throw in tons of ugly strip malls. Clearly a great area!

Anonymous said...

umm..TB is treatable, so no i wouldnt have the same reaction.

Not the new strains. Totally resistant to any drugs on the market right now.

Better run fer the hills, Anon, and make your own shanty or lean-to from salvaged bits of tin and broken branches-- deep in the woods and far far away from any people (or internet access)!

It's the only way to be sure!

Anonymous said...

for those people that keep thinking everyone is a troll who disagrees with them...pelase see below link

Sligo said...

I would not describe that location as being "at the edge of Wheaton". The house is in Woodside Park, one of the nicest neighborhoods of Silver Spring, albeit at the very edge near a commercial area.

wombat said...

That may be a nice neighborhood, but the house is right next door to a gas station. Which seems problematic to me even if everyone who ever lived there died peacefully of old age.

Anonymous said...

Check out the street view. What a joke. A gas station is right there.

Its not even a nice looking house. Looks cheap and low rent. This entire area seriously inflates its real estate. Murders or no murders no way that dump is worth that much money.

I wont even get into the obvious point of how great a neighborhood it is if people keep getting murdered in that house.

Sligo said...

Granted, the house is a generic "colonial" like a lot of the houses in the DC area, but in Bethesda essentially the same house (and unrenovated) would run you $200K more.

And the fact that there were two separate murders in the house has nothing to do with the neighborhood, particularly in the most recent case, where the perpetrators were invited to come to the house from DC.

tellsitlikeitis said...

It is definately NOT a great area. It IS right next to a gas station that sits at a very busy intersection with Georgia AV. The only good thing is that Armand's Pizza (yum) is within walking distance.

Sligo said...

Don't forget Woodside Deli basically next door plus Goldberg's Bagels and Snider's across the street. Yeah, Georgia Avenue is busy, but at least you can be on the Beltway in seconds if you need to be.

Anonymous said...

Getting the beltway does not justify that ridiculous price. This area is insane. Based on that logic I should pay like 250 to 300k for an apartment on University Blvd too right? It may be all shanty town area but hey it's only right near the beltway in most parts.

Anonymous said...

It's obvious most of you have never actually been to the neighborhood.

Anonymous said...

I actually have. Totally inflated. Nice try.

Sligo said...

Yes, Woodside Park is clearly a "shantytown".

Anonymous said...

"It is definately NOT a great area. It IS right next to a gas station that sits at a very busy intersection with Georgia AV."

I think by this definition the only "great" areas in the entire US would be in Amish country.

Anonymous said...

See, isn't it so hard to resist feeding the troll? Woodside Park has been 400K+ for as long as I've lived in DTSS. But, naturally, the douchebag anon thinks he knows more about the area than our entire free market society. Obviously, this house's value is deflated by the immediacy of the gas station/Ga. Ave - troll, look a block over and there's a house for sale for 1.129mil. What do you think that one's worth in this shantytown, 20 bucks?

Rebecca said...

The area seems fine to me, but geez - there is hardly any cabinet space in that kitchen. Other than that though, seems like a pretty solid house. Hopefully someone gives it a chance soon.

Anonymous said...

Ah, the crybaby is back. In any case it's not just this particular house or neighborhood- this whole area is insane: I'm including NOVA, and DC in this.

This house is shabby and so is the neighborhood. Take a look at the video:

Yes, clearly the banks the speculators and appraisers say its worth at a lot. Those are always the MOST HONEST people on earth.

Glad the defend silver spring troll believes what a bank will say as long as it makes DTSS or the immediate area seem PERFECT.

Anonymous said...

Ther area is a dump. period. Its filled with crime (case and point the murders) and the fact that its near the beltway means absolutley nothing.

its way overpriced, and quite frankly most of DTSS is a dump.

waiting for the troll remarks to come in, but before they do, let me repeat the link i posted above.

Anonymous said...

"Glad the defend silver spring troll believes what a bank will say as long as it makes DTSS or the immediate area seem PERFECT."

It never ceases to amaze me the willful obliviousness of someone who comes onto THIS BLOG and accuses it and its commenters of being blindly pro-Silver Spring simply because it doesn't indulge the histrionics that some here choose to engage in.

Anonymous said...

Heres the house. according to the stats and the map...WAY over priced. worth at MOST 375k

Woodside as a whole is nice, but the parts bordering Georgia Ave are a DUMP!

Anonymous said...

The county should not allow the address to be changed.

Anonymous said...

"Yes, clearly the banks the speculators and appraisers say its worth at a lot."

That isn't how free markets work. The house is worth what it is because people are willing to pay it. Look at the recent sales on the surrounding blocks. Only a small 2br went for under 400K. Most are 500K-1mil+. Call it crazy if you want, but that's been the case for many years now. Certainly isn't a fluke, it just so happens most people do not agree with you that "most of DTSS is a dump."

I don't see why the value of your life hinges on trying to degrade everyone else. Your opinion doesn't outweigh everyone else's. Deal with it and move on, preferably to a blog in a neighborhood that you actually live in/know what you're talking about.

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous 1203

actyally idiot if you look at the link above, most houses in the area qwere sold for under 500K.

The price is mostly determined by the market, but a large factor into the market is what the appraisor prices it at. But idiot homeowners thing there house is worth more, so they raise the price.

the result? overprices homes, that stay on the market for 200 days because they are overpriced.

case and point

Anonymous said...

20 typos+lack of logic=none of us know what you're trying to say, steve. Appraisers don't set the prices of homes. Homes inside the beltway MoCo sell extremely quickly, on average. Move on with your life, kid. You grasp on real estate, downtown Silver Spring, and the English language are all failing you.

Anonymous said...

How do you know all the last few posts are all Steve?

I think Steve is an idiot but he's right that the area in question is not great and the value is over the top.

And yes, I live in Downtown Silver Spring and bought a place here and don't think it's great....yet. So I guess I'm a troll too?

Sligo said...

This conversation is getting stupid. If you define the "area" as that specific block, then yes, it is not optimal having a gas station next door. That fact will be appropriately reflected in the purchase price of a house in this situation. However, the neighborhood as a whole is undeniably pretty nice, and the price of homes there reflect that. It's not a "shanty town" or a "dump" by any stretch. That statement is ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Considering you didn't use the word "idiot" 4 times in two sentences, no, you're not a troll. But then again, a lot of people are throwing the T word at the guy, so maybe my threshold is lower than others. Personally, I spend exactly zero time in that immediate area, expect to go to Snyder's.

Anonymous said...

sligo...the neighborhood as a whole is pretty deilapidated.

I think your thinking of the area when you last visited it in 1938.

what in that area makes it "pretty nice"

btw, so everytime someone uses the word "idiot" they are a troll? i dont think you understand the definition of that word

Sligo said...

Ok, I'm out. Deal with the troll if you want.

Anonymous said...

Dilapidated? Not even close.

Anonymous said...

actually it was....1 letter off

Debbie Cook said...

Someone moving from Downtown DC would not think that that was a busy corner and probably won't care about the location.
As an agent in MD, I know that you can not disclose that the property has had a murder, death, HIV or the property is otherwise "stygmatized" because this is NOT a "material fact" (does not affect the property's structure, etc) You can disclose this if the seller says that you can. This is the rule for the listing agent. I don't know that this is true if you are a buyer's agent (representing the buyers)and you are aware of what happened. I assume it's the same. If I was showing it to a buyer I was representing and I could not disclose this - I would HAVE to have DUCT tape over my mouth to show it. Unsuspecting agents from other areas that don't know the story of the house could sell the house and be in for a nasty surprise when the neighbors tell the new buyers the story and they back out. I think if I were the listing agent, I would ask the sellers to allow the agents and me to disclose it up front. People buy properties like this all the time. It is not a bad neighborhood and like I said before - to people that are used to it, coming from DC or other very urban cities, to them this is not a busy locaton, like it might be to us suburbanites.

Justified said...

As luck would have it, I pedal past this house every working day and have some insight into the property that, although not deep, might be helpful here. Oddly enough, I didn't realize this was "the" house.

1) The neighborhood is not "a dump". People have noted that this is "next to" a gas station, but the station faces Georgia. The station does have an exit next to the house, and this points to the actual issue with the location

2) Location is wanting from a traffic perspective because it is a bit too close to the intersection if you want to head west (important, since that is what creates the proximity to the beltway, plus is is an area where you also want people who are going to be driving on surface streets to Bethesda). Heading east, you also have some issues because a lot of people are speeding by the place through the light. Backing into that cannot be too fun, and, no, there is no on street parking (legally) here.

3) I cannot see how the claim about the square footage or number of bedrooms can be true. This is the generic colonial of the area, and those do *not* have 1900+ square feet in them. It also looks to mile one of the bedrooms is in the basement, and is therefore one of those non bedroom (for rental purposes) bedrooms. This would appear to "really" be a three bedroom plus office place with maybe 1400 or so square feet above grade. But it does have a garage.

4) As others have noted, this has what I would call an "investor" kitchen. (Has granite and stainless, but not much thought went into the storage or layout.) This is the kind of kitchen that a new-to-owning buyer could think was just great but may later find wanting. It can be redone...but then you should not get vpcredit for a redone kitchen.

5) one of the bathrooms is original. Unfortunately, that cool, fun, retro look will only last as long as your pipes do, which is likely about, oh, zero more years, give or take. So you should pencil in the usual $10K to redo this, more if you need to do more replumbing.

6) unfortunately, although the other bathroom was redone, it is not one of those bathrooms that will generate lots of enthusiasm. No bathtub but also no shower enclosure tells me this will be a candidate for redoing in the next few years as well.

7) Everything else is basically what you can see in the Redfin description.

This will sell to somebody for somewhere between $400K and $450K. At $400K *I* would buy it, redo the bathrooms and kitchen before I moved in, and feel pretty happy about selling the current house. My guess is that they find somebody to bite for $425K who happens to like the kitchen or just doesn't cook much. This will obviously never be the most expensive place in the neighborhood, but it will do just fine.

Now concerning the troll: somebody who cites a definition from "know your meme" to prove he is not a troll may or may not be a troll, but was likely the kind of kids who used to write essays for school that began "Webster's dictionary defines 'toolishness' as..." without knowing that this fails to impress.

Anonymous said...

I drive by that house all the time and never realized that was THE house. It's so unsuspecting - which makes the murders all the more creepy to me, now. It should be totally illegal to change the address. But, I’ve run into some really unscrupulous realtors around here so it’s not surprising. I’m glad you wrote about it, Sligo. Hopefully potential buyers will find their way to this blog if nothing else.

Anonymous said...

Like I said, I have been to said neighborhoo and it's okay but nothing special. Much like other neighborhoods like Chevy Chase this entire area is overpriced and overinflated.

I also can't beleive it's the square footage listed. Looks much smaller than that, and I tend to lean towards the guess that the basement is a "room".

Also unlike lets say Chevy Chase- this is within less than a mile of the Forrest Glen Metro and the surrounding area which is (not matter how this blog tries to spin it) NOT particularly nice. Nor is wheaton as you continue on Georgia Ave.

Anonymous said...

You're right, this area is right near things (DTSS, Beltway, and two metro stations). Hence it's value. You say Forest Glen access as if it's a negative. Must be poor phrasing on your part because there's certainly no way someone could think metro access (especially the most quite station in the system) would somehow be bad.

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous 1020.

Ummm location is everything. and your surrounndings determine the location.

Being close to a downtown/metro and beltway means NITHING if the area is festered with dilapidation and crime.

Answer me this, why is it then that Annocostia or Hyatssville) (or anywhere on the green line) is not booming with $1 million dollar homes? because they are crappy areas...just like this area is.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Thanks, Anon 12:49 for confirming to all of us one of two things:

1) you have never actually been to Anacostia or Hyatssville and thus have no idea what you are talking about; or

2)you are simply saying stupid stuff for the sake of attention.

Either way, I sure do wish Sligo would eliminate the "Anonymous" option here, even if we had to use handles, so that everyone could be sure to ignore your drivel in the future.

Anonymous said...

"festered with dilapidation and crime"

Right. Dumb of me to reply to someone who thinks Woodside Park is dilapidated and crime ridden. Silly me for wasting time on you.

Anonymous said...

@ anon 1:04

Have you ever been in Anacostia? Clearly not.

Trixie said...

While that stretch of Georgia may not be the most elegant, that area is certainly not "dilapidated" in the slightest. The Woodside Park neighborhood is beautiful and the houses there are fantastic, and I love me some Sniders grocery store. I grew up here - and live in Old Town Alexandria now and still think this part of Silver Spring is lovely (OK, the part closer to the park, but still).

If you think this area is "crime ridden" you need to go back to Iowa - the house is an anomaly, pure and simple.

Anonymous said...

"Have you ever been in Anacostia? Clearly not."

Many, many many times.

Which is why I feel absolutely comfortable in saying any alleged comparison between there and here is entirely laughable and idiotic.

Unless, of course, you mean that we both have black people. Actually the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that all these terms trolls like you throw out about DTSS and the area, "it's residents are ugly" "its dilapidated" "shanty town" etc... are simply your euphemism for "there are too many colored folk around for my comfort."

in the know said...

Who is this idiot? Clearly they know nothing about the woodside /north woodside /forest glen area of ss. NEXT....

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 2:52 has hit the nail on the head.

Anonymous said...

my remark about anocostia, was not that it is the same as DTSS/woodside. it was to point out that just because you are close to a metro or the beltway doesnt mean your a prosperous thriving area.

idiots gotta start READING. ya know, top to bottom. left to right. a group of words together is a sentance. take tylenol for any headaches, midol for any cramps.

Anonymous said...

"my remark about anocostia, was not that it is the same as DTSS/woodside. it was to point out that just because you are close to a metro or the beltway doesnt mean your a prosperous thriving area."

No. You called DTSS a "crappy" area, just like Anacostia and Hyattsville.

Don't say something stupid and then lie about the stupid thing you said when it is literally right there for everyone to read. That's just compounding the stupid.

Anonymous said...

This is a minor point, but an alley separates the house from the gas station and some trees block the view of the station.

More importantly, if you define the "area" as what is within walking distance of this house, it includes:

Sniders, White Castle ice cream (the best!), Armands, several other ethnic restaurants, excellent parks, a very good elementary school (Woodlin), beautiful tree-lined streets with well-maintained homes, access (about a 20 minute walk) to downtown SS.

Downsides? The murders, obviously. The gas station. Heavy rush hour traffic on Columbia/Dale Drive and Ga. Ave./Seminary Rd., along with the accompanying noise.

Overall, an okay house is a very nice neighborhood. But I still wouldn't buy it. Just too creepy for me.

Anonymous said...

yes...DTSS is a crappy area, thats what I said and thats why I beleive. But that was NOT the point of that particular post. MOROOOOON!!!

Anonymous said...

"yes...DTSS is a crappy area, thats what I said and thats why I beleive. But that was NOT the point of that particular post. MOROOOOON!!!"

What your "point" was is entirely subjective. What you actually said is not. And you said that DTSSwas crappy like Hyattsville and Anacostia which, on its face, is being stated either: 1) out of a desire to be purposely inflammatory or 2) out of woeful ignorance of either DTSS or those two areas or 3) based on a comaprison of our minority population relative to so-called "non-crappy" areas like Bethesda.

So which is it? Are you a lying troll, an ignorant troll or a racist troll? Choice is yours.

Anonymous said...

Come on, steve. At least put the emphasis in the right place if you're going to insult the 40 responders who think you're a wacko - "MOROON" just sounds weird.

Anonymous said...


I'm very critical of Downtown Silver Spring- so much so that theres a defend silver spring troll that thinks I'm you (HA HA) or the NOVA troll. However, I can at least address specifics and say that the area has some bad road designs, is poorly planned and has a terrible horrible nightlife.

However there are a lot of positives and it is up and coming I think and will improve over time.

Can you actually specifically articulate what bothers you rather than screaming at people?

You're just as bad as the knee jerk idiot who defends DTSS no matter what. Try to be reasonable.

Is it the high minority or poor people subsidized housing that bothers you? Do you think it's ugly? Do you live here?

Anonymous said...

I'll tell you exactly what i dont like about it, (steve here talking for those mental midgets)

1) Smug arronagant people who think they know best. (case and point many people on this board). Now being in the liberal bastion that it the DC area, this area is filled with these kind of people, but DTSS seems to have perfected this. We put the life of a lonely tree in the way of developmental progress, we led the fight on the bag tax and people get their panties in a bunch when KBR builds something around here because "oh my gosh they are 1/80th related to hailburton and dick cheney"

2) bizarre love affair with ethipian food. So I took a count the other day, 8 Ethiopian places in the immidiate DTSS area. Yet only 3 Italian places and 2 burger places(not including burger king because that doesnt count). Kind of seems a little lopsided don't you think? Btw, Just because there is an unusual number of Ethiopians in this area, doesnt mean its the kind of development the are should be bringing.

3) Weird obsession with having no nightlife, with the exception of the oh so awesome piratz tavern that they had to do a show about it (being sarcastic) there is no place to get a decent drink come 10 on a Friday or Sat Night. McGinty's is ok, but if thats the best thing we got then we're in trouble.

4) Increase in crime and gang activity. This should be a no brainer but people put on there PC glasses and ignore the gangs of holligans roaming the streets because they don't want to look at their color. (and no this wasnt a racist jab, just a statement of fact)

5) rediculously overpriced for what it is. DTSS and the immidiate area is WAY overpriced and the main reason why good development has come in. Because instead of putting in good stores BEFORE, they put the cart before the horse and raised the prices, therefor leaving a lot of empty units. or putting in crappy stores (i.e the ne 7-11 on georgia)

There ya have it. The top 5. there are so many more reasons, but that should feed the appetite.

Now hopefully people read the whole thing instead of the first 2 lines then "blah blah blahed into bull$hit"

Anonymous said...

sorry meant to say mcdonads, not burger king...but doesnt metter same crappyness

Anonymous said... move. PLEASE. We'll take up a collection to get you out of your parent's house. So sorry Ethiopians and Democrats can be found in DTSS. So sorry it's a high demand region that can command high prices. So sorry our crime has gone down y/y for as long as I can remember. No, seriously, get a job and move. It's not that hard. Just spend as much time on job sites or enrolling in school as you do calling everyone "MOROONS" and misspelling every-other word in all your posts.

Craig said...

I think Sligo is going to have approve comments before they become public. There are way too many idiotic posts in the comments section.

The trolling on this site is approaching levels. And this is not a good thing.

Craig said...

Oh yeah, I also recommend no more allowing anonymous message posts.


Clancy said...

I agree with Craig, doing away with anonymous posting, while it won't completely prevent trolls, should reduce the confusion over the worst offenders.

I'm personally not a big fan of moderated forums, but it might cut down on the more vitriolic posts if Sligo just deleted the worst offenders. (Is that possible?)

Anonymous said...

1) Smug arronagant people who think they know best.

My goodness, get out of your parents' basement and explore a little, stevie. This particular characteristic is endemic to ANY group of people or area.

2) bizarre love affair with ethipian food. I don't suppose this would have anything to do with the HUGE Ethiopian population here, would it? Imagine that...Ethiopian people liking Ethiopian food. That's just crazy. I would also like to point out the inherent hypocrisy of your first "criticism" of DTSS with this statement "Just because there is an unusual number of Ethiopians in this area, doesnt (sic) mean its (sic) the kind of development the are (sic) should be bringing."

3) Weird obsession with having no nightlife There is neither a weird obsession with having no nightlife, nor an actual lack of one. You confuse personal preference for objective definition. My wife and I, just this past weekend, went to Pacci's for dinner and then to Sidebar for drinks, where we stayed until about midnight. If that is not your flavor of nightlife, so be it, but who is the one being "smug" when you impose your narrow definition of something on everyone else?

4) Increase in crime and gang activity. Yeah...except there's not... Crime in Silver Spring was down 7.5% from 2010 to 2011 and is down .1% from 2011 to the first quarter of 2012.

5) rediculously overpriced for what it is. I am sorry you feel this way. When I was moving to the area about 3 years ago, I felt DTSS was one of the few neighborhoods that had a nice combination of affordability, access to public transportation and businesses (like grocery stores, restaurants, hardware) within an easy walk (which was important as we decided to ditch our car) and safety (which was important because I was leaving my wife alone here for 4 months).

But in any case, maybe if you moved into a more reasonably priced neighborhood, you could finally afford that spell check program you so desperately need. No one is begging you to stay, believe me.

Anonymous said...

I'm the anon who asked Steve about why he's so angry so I'll address his points. let me point out that I do have Huge problems with this area and critique it all the time and think most of the commentators are way too sensitive about it.

1) Every area has smug arrogant people. Yeah so you're mad that liberals are here. So what? I make liberal jokes all the time and do think that sometimes it's a bit extreme but do you think conservative land is better? Get a grip. Any extreme opinion.

2) I dont like ethipion food. I would be with you until that last line. What does "its not the kind of development the area should be bringing" mean? Sounds kind of racist to me buddy.

3) Agreed. There is no nightlife here. This is your only salient point.

4) But all crime statistics are down. Are you just scared of loud kids running around acting foolish?

5) I partially agree here and have made similar criticisms. Again you take it over the top as per usual.

As for the whole ban Anons and moderate posts- sure Craig. lets ban free speech. Always fun. Even if Steve is an idiot that's not the solution- sorry.

Anonymous said...

All the points about DTSS are at least partially right, but one thing they can't take away from DTSS is that people love it. By people I mean, all people, of every color and stripe. Just go to our excellent public square and it's filled with people who want to be around other people. I love Silver Spring, warts and all.

Anonymous said...


I'm the 11:44 Anon. I have my problems with the area, but I bought a place here and I like it well enough. I'm looking forward to the improvements moving forward despite my issues with the area.

And I'd imagine I'd have issues with almost any area I moved into so there is that. I just wish there was some actual nightlife; if the area could at least pull something like that off I'd be pretty much happy.

Anonymous said...

You want a night life? Promote the construction of condo towers. You need buckets of young people to get a night life. Fortunatly, they are building them in the Ripley district so just be patient.

Anonymous said...

"And I'd imagine I'd have issues with almost any area I moved into so there is that."

Indeed. That's human nature and the entire point of a community/blogs like this. The only way to make things better is to point out what you want to see change. There certainly is no perfect neighborhood out there and there certainly is no pleasing everyone about everything. People like steve who are just completely bitter they can't afford to move out of their parent's house aren't helpful.

Personally, I like the level of nightlife (a few good bars; not a whole strip of them or anything). If DTSS ever turns into a U St. or AdMo where you have to step around pools of vomit on the sidewalks in the A.M. and you wake up to drunk ppl passed out on your porch, then I'll be moving. But to each their own. I'm no NIMBY - if that's what the majority want, then I'm happy finding somewhere else to live. Right now, that's certainly not the majority, but I think we all agree on the smaller things (e.g. would love for Piratz to serve better food or for FS1 to be less generic looking).

P.S. I think I'm the person you think defends DTSS all the time. At least I've laid into your regular complaints about nightlife on multiple occasions (not to say I'm the only one who has done so, most of the time there's already a comment complaining about the recent trend of bringing up "nightlife" in every comment section).

Anonymous said...


That's fine if you are. I'm the guy you think is the NOVA troll or the four other people. Half those posts are not from me. And frankly I didn't even move into this area until 2010 but browsing the Archives I see the NOVA and Bethesda troll started back in 2008at the least.

I disagree with you on the nightlife and piratz, I just feel like we need at least the suburbs level. And yes I dont particularly want to be ADMO either cause I'm getting too old for that.

But- I own a place here and even though having bars and nightlife that may make it loud and obnoxious, it does seem to raise property values even more.

And like I said, I'm okay with some of the options here, QHT and Mcgintys are okay but still pretty limited unless you are just going to drink different beers with a close off circle of friends (QHT) or go to a place with potential that is usually half empty (mcgintys).

Piratz just needs to be closed but I agree that FS1 could use less generic. I like the look but man the food and service is BAD. Just bad bad bad. Its not even a proper sports type bar but it really could be with some tweaks.

But like the anon above you- I think a lot of this may not be the places. Mcgintys really could be great I think- but its just a lack of people or too many families here.

And that's probably where you and I differ too.

Anonymous said...

Also I'd like to add, sure NOVA is nice but it does have stuff like THIS:

Anonymous said...

We don't need the nightlife of Adams Morgan, but it sure would be nice to have something closer to the level of Clarendon.

New update on transit center (bad news if you were hoping for a definitive opening date):

Anonymous said...


Thats so embarassing. Why is all government so Inept?

Anonymous said...

I didn't know Foulger Pratt was part of the government - learn something new every day I guess.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I didn't know Foulger-Pratt as well as the subcontractor they hired were all government workers. Thank goodness those really smart private company inspectors identified the government's screw up.

Anonymous said...

In the end it doesn't matter.

You are judged by your end results. So in the end its a government project. It does not matter who the subcontractors are or who was hired to do the work. The client (in this case the public) only care about end result. Basic rule of all projects and business.

The managers and the people in charge are ultimately responsible. In this case the end result is that this project has taken how many years more than estimated and cost how much more than the Governemnt estimated initially?

If you can answer those questions with anything reasonable then your snarkiness about subcontractors makes sense.

Anonymous said...

How about BP's oil disaster, was that the government's job for being too lax in reviewing their wells? Was the government responsible for the Great Recession becasue they didn't regulate banks sufficiently?

You don't need to be snarky to show that humans are at times woefully inept in both government or the private sector. Blaming the government for a company's failures takes republican hypocrasy to a new level though.

Anonymous said...


Of course it's political with the people on this blog. A sign of a simple mind.

This was a government project. How does that have anything to do with BP? That doesnt even make sense.

Again, government project. Ultimately they are responsible. Period. They did not regulate their own subcontractors.

Also- I am not a republican; not sure why you assume that I am-oh wait, nevermind....that's the kind of knee jerk reaction that passes as intelligent around here.

Please explain to me how a Government project is ultimately a private contractors fault? Yes the Goverment can blame them, that's fine, but ultimately they are to blame for hiring them and not regulating the timelines better.

And you can bet they will hire them again no matter how this turns that will kill any argument about appropriate punishment being doled out.

Anonymous said...

I think we should all be able to agree that there is plenty of blame to go around--top to bottom--on this cluster$*&! of a project.

Anonymous said...

Oh my lord that's the craziest thing I've heard all day. It's "all government"'s fault for Foulger Pratt botching a project? Riiiiiiiiiight. If only "government" wasn't the client and rather a private individual or company. Then, obviously, the cracks would disappear. Dang guv'ment.

Anonymous said...

Oh my lord-this is a prime example of people being so sucked into their political ideology (in this case clearly liberal) that they refuse to see basic logic.

How about whatever the governement did here you try at your job.

You have a project that you propose to lets say the government. Your company is in charge. You have a budget, a deadline and a project goal.

Lets say you get subcontractors to do the work and they screw up. You audit them and it gets bogged down. You fail to meet your budget or timeline or other project goals.

You think your client (the Government in this example) would go oh well it's the SUB contractors fault...lets blame them? hahaha. No. It's YOUR fault. You were in charge.

So no, it's not the craziest thing you've heard all day...its just that you apparently have never ever been involved with a business, or a project in your life or you are just willfully obtuse.

Anonymous said...

This is a typical example of lack of commitment, understanding of construction and political maneuvering. WMATA JDAC Manager T. Robinson did not provide proper supervision. He took laissez-faire attitude, got paid and did not watch what went on. Figuring that design builder is responsible. He collected his paycheck and so did his so called inspectors. The County should sue WMATA for not doing what they were reimbursed for. The County had no inspectors, did not want to pay WMATA to build Structure because they thought it was too expensive, Guess what more expensive now. The Contractor built what he wanted to save money, because Design/build the designer is a subcontract to the builder and loses his independence. The GC probably directed the designer to build it to IBC and not to County Code. So the Designer bought into this crime. The willful disregard of contractural requirements is a crime and definitely waste, fraud and abuse. The acknowledgement by the GC Manager that is not built to County requirements is an admission of guilt. We should be in the penalty phase of the case. Not having people trying to delver an inferior project and make immediate headache go away.
WMATA should not accept the project, or require a life cycle cost analysis to determine to present value costs of the additional long term maintenance and customer disruption to the repairs that will be required sooner. Plus require the GC and designer to fund the cost of replacement when the structure does not last its required design life.
The politicians who are mostly responsible for this are trying to make it all go away, but they should be held accountable and perhaps their short-sighted designs should cost them money too. Not sure how that can work but, they have fidiciary responsibility to those who elected them and we must hold them accountable for burdening future taxpayers with the additional long-term costs that will occur.

Anonymous said...

I'm confused by the above comments, so allow me to simplify the analysis of fault here:

1. Government enters into a contract with Foulger to build transit center with specific concrete thickness. In return for Foulger doing the job in accordance with the contract's specifications, the Government will pay Foulger a certain amount.

2. Foulger fails to build transit center with contractually-required concrete thickness.

3. Foulger is in breach of the contract.

So, under basic principles of contract law, Foulger has breached a contract, and they are at fault. The Government did not get what it was entitled to under the contract.

Anonymous said...

Please find out what will be coming into the building on Georgia AVe & Wayne, where the Silver Spring Community Board used to be. They have an alcohol license in the window.
What's UP?

Mike said...

La Madeleine is opening a bistro concept at Georgia and Wayne.

Anonymous said...

"You think your client (the Government in this example) would go oh well it's the SUB contractors fault...lets blame them? hahaha. No. It's YOUR fault. You were in charge."

Exactly! Except you're not understanding your own analogy or not understanding the current situation.

The government is the client in THIS case too, not just your example. In BOTH cases the government is being shafted by a negligent general contractor. In your example it's "me" that's at fault. In the real world it's Foulger Pratt's fault. In your example it's the subcontractor who actually messed up. In the real world it's the subcontractor who messed up (Facchina Construction, the concrete subcontractor selected by Foulger).

Your analogy is perfect - it's not even an's literally, word for word, what's happened in the transit center situation. FP has "a budget, a deadline and a project goal" and they botched it, royally, because of an inept subcontractor THEY hired. You see that now, right? You're not a dumb person, I know that you see it.

lilkunta said...

sligo, how was the realtor able to change the house address without renumbering all of columbia avenue

Anonymous said...

likunta- isnt the house at the end of the street and there is a gas station at the end of it? That's probably my guess. I could be wrong of course.

As for the Anon above-I see your point but it's just a matter of perspective. You're just absolving the government of all blame. I put the blame at the top and also put the blame on the Contractor and the subcontractor. Period.

Government is only the client in regards to the perspective of Foulger pratt. However WE are the governments customers and they are failing us.

Again, just viewpoint and perspective. The difference seems to be (and I could be wrong- go ahead and correct me) that you made this political and REFUSE to assign any blame to the MOCO governemnt.

I'm passing blame to everyone....but just pointing out that this is a trend with most Government projects (in particular MOCO). That does NOT mean I absolve the idiot Contractors or Subs of culpability.

liars liars liars said...

This article has been picked up by the Washington Post. I hope everyone sees it. The things people will do to make money--in this case sell a house. Who knew....

Anonymous said...

Why do all of these Ride On incidents have to happen in Silver Spring? Are the bus drivers as mad as we are about the transit center delays?

Anonymous said...

Haha, I think it has more to do with a 1/4 of the county being called "Silver Spring" than anything.

HeatherRose said...

My fiance and I looked at this house twice since the renovation and considered putting in an offer - knowing the full history - but my mom got "bad vibes" upstairs and refused to let us bid.

They did a lovely job fixing it up, but to be fair, even without the murder aspect, the location right on an alley behind a gas station at Georgia Ave is not the greatest.

Anonymous said...


You are clearly trolling. haven't you read this blog? According to it being next to an alley and a gas station on Georgia Avenue is the greatest location on Earth.

Anonymous said...

There is a big difference between "greatest place on earth" which no one has claimed, and "like Anacostia" which some moron here ACTUALLY claimed.

Anonymous said...

Amen to that, 9:03.

Anonymous said...

To the two Anon above me: Pretty sure that guy was Steve who is a known looney toon.

The sarcasm still stands. People on this blog completely discounted the gas station, Georgia avenue or the alley right next to it.

not the greatest location. The point still stands.

And Steve is still crazy.

Anonymous said...

"not the greatest location. The point still stands."

If that was the point, fine. It is a absolutely pointless point to make, as no one here was claiming it was. But whatever.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the agent of THIS house should change its address!

Anonymous said...

To the person wondering about how they were able to change the numbering without screwing up the remaining numbers -- the prior numbering went 9336 (lowest number), 9337 (this house before the switch), 9338, 9339, and so on. So, this house now has the lowest number at 9335.

One advantage to being at the end of a block, I guess -- easy renumbering!

Anonymous said...

That house is next door to a gas station.

Anonymous said...


Doesn't matter. Still "one of the nicest neighborhoods in Silver Spring". Its so nice you'll think being close to easy access gas is a bonus!

Anonymous said...

Doesn't matter. Still "one of the nicest neighborhoods in Silver Spring". Its so nice you'll think being close to easy access gas is a bonus!

Yay! King of the Strawman is back?

Have you ever made an honest argument in your life?

Anonymous said...

Not that I've seen. I don't know what's more annoying about "^^" guy. The fact his dumb statements are all arguing with exactly no one or the fact he's basically regurgitated the same statement over and over a dozen times in 1 thread. I guess it beats listening to the same "nightlife" complaint he's injected into every post for probably a year now.

Anonymous said...

Yay! Defensive nobodies are back.

There was no argument. Sligo and other people have argued that the gas station, traffic, alley or Georgia Avenue should not have any affect on how nice the house is or how it's percieved or what its price is.

many OTHER people have pointed out these issues, which you two jokers above (or the same guy) conveniently ignore. Just pretend its one guy pointing it out-nothing else to see here.

That's just how you defend everything in this town right? Like (since YOU brought it up) you're still under the labored delusion that this town even has what would be called a nightlife.

Sorry-no. You need to reality check sometime. In fact: WHAT about silver Spring do you think could be improved? What negatives do you see? What isn't good or great? Please tell me-this ought to be good.

Sligo said...

Uh, I never argued that.

Anonymous said...

"Like (since YOU brought it up) you're still under the labored delusion that this town even has what would be called a nightlife."

It looks like you continue to suffer under the conceited delusion that your definition of what does and does not constitute "nightlife" is somehow controlling.

You also suffer under the delusion that pushing back against obviously stupid, over the top statements that are uttered either out of incredible ignorance or purely to roil the crowd means that someone does not believe legitimate criticism exists.

Anonymous said...

Exactly no one ever argued that. Plenty of people said the exact opposite. Are you not actually reading the posts? Ctrl+F "gas station" - a dozen different people point out that the valuation is negatively affected by the gas station (including myself). Exactly no one says the opposite.

I can't tell if you have trouble reading or if you just like to stir up crap for no reason at all. Given how many people hate your comments, I guess it must be the latter.

Anonymous said...

wow, now youre responding to yourself and pretending to be two people? a new low...

Anonymous said...

...the "^^" guy is a lot of things, but I don't think he's insane enough to be responding to himself. I'm the 1:43 response (building off Sligo's response) and I certainly am not him.

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