Tuesday, March 27, 2012

Silver Spring News 'N Notes

- Now the Post is openly mocking the Transit Center debacle. At least there was a Zombie Walk plug.

- If you're curious why survey crews have been busy measuring things along Sligo Creek Parkway in recent months, they're doing advance work for a project that will replace all the sewer lines that run along the creek's path. This is part of a larger, regional effort to upgrade the sewage system. Hopefully that work won't be too disruptive (or stinky) when it begins.

- So Society Lounge is finally open. Anyone try it yet? The menu looks good, and it includes a "Silver Spring Burger"

- If Ike Leggett gets his way, parking fees in downtown Silver Spring could increase this year. While the proposed increase for meters is just 10 cents an hour, charging for Saturday parking is also on the table. Not sure if this change would apply to garages or just meters, but if it's the former, that could prove to be quite the cash cow for the County. However, I believe there may be some sort of agreement with the DTSS developer that prevents the county from charging for parking at the Wayne and Ellsworth lots on weekends. (It's possible the agreement has expired.)

Somewhat unrelated, but it's about time they instituted some sort of validation process for parking in the Whole Foods/Strosnider's lot. Of course, adding a gated exit would create a whole new set of traffic problems. Perhaps parking headaches are unavoidable when it comes to that lot. And for those who claim that churchgoers are not using the lot, why is the far side of the lot filled on Sunday mornings when the side closest to Whole foods has open spots? Is it just that shoppers want a little extra exercise?

- After the inevitable drama that comes when you deal with the County bureaucracy, the Fenton Street Market will be returning to Veterans Plaza on Saturdays beginning April 28th.



80 comments:

Anonymous said...

Time to remove this idiot Ike Leggit from office. Tax and spend. Tax and spend. Charge and spend.

Hey buffoon: how about fixing the liquor laws and creating an actual urban environment in DTSS? How about forcing the hand of the idiot contractors that screwed up the transit center?

Anonymous said...

Re: Sligo Creek sewage lines -- It already does stink. Hopefully these improvements will remove that smell while also doing something to reduce pollution in the Anacostia watershed in general. See more here: http://www.fosc.org/AL-WSSCRepairWork.htm

Patrick Thornton said...

Folger-Pratt (and any offshoots) should be banned for 30 years from bidding on county contracts if they don't fix this mess.

And if the county can't fix this quickly, Legget and Ervin should go. Ultimately, this is the county's fault. They pick the contractors, and they oversee their work.

Anonymous said...

Haven't eaten there yet, but the interior of Society looks amazing. I thought the owner was nuts for ripping out the decently nice Nicaro interior, but it has really turned out to be something special.

Anonymous said...

Society looks amazing. But I saw about three homeless people outside of it already asking when it would open last week.

Hopefully there's a dress code if those guys are getting in.

Anonymous said...

validation for parking at whole foods? yea thats just what we need, to pay more for a crappy downtown. and anonymous 11:13....well said well said. its high time we get rid of these tax and spend liberals. who are ruining this county.

i would loooove to know what the bag tax money is being used for. its advertised as a way to pay for some enviormental restoration...but i would bet good money it just goes back into the county caufers to help pay for wasted money on stupid projects and rediculous pensions

-steve

Anonymous said...

"i would loooove to know what the bag tax money is being used for."

It's called Google. It's your friend and it helps keep your random word vomit from burning everyone else's eyes.

Anonymous said...

In fairness to the churchgoers, it would be nice if they had a place to park. That church was there for many years before Whole Foods and Strosnider's came along. I guess that wasn't taken into consideration when that part of the DTSS development was planned. That said, even when the church is empty, the parking lot there is pretty much always a disaster. I never park (and thus don't frequent those businesses) unless it's some crazy off-peak hour like 8:00am on a Saturday.

Anonymous said...

Hey, anonymous 1144.Guess what? The information hasn’t been posted yet. The law has only been around for 3 months. Maybe if you didn’t use google and instead used your brain you wouldn’t sound like a complete moron.

Anonymous said...

Can we please stop bickering and talk about what's really important....the happy hour specials at Society. Does anyone know what they are?

Anonymous said...

"The information hasn’t been posted yet."

Good lord. I seriously have to do this for you?

Water Quality Protection Charge fund. There. You can rest your little head. Please comment on the substance of the post, not on some random fee that was voted on a year ago and has nothing to do with anything.

Anonymous said...

Here's where the bag tax money is going and I found it on....wait for it....Google!


http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgtmpl.asp?url=/content/pio/Bag/index.asp

Clancy said...

It's nice to see we're all back to treating each other with kindness and respect. Really, folks, there are online newspaper comment threads out there where people haven't called each others idiots or complained about government tyranny. Before you stop by SS,S, try to let loose your commenting angst on them.

Also, a quick Google search would let someone know that the funds from the tax are deposited into the Water Quality Protection Charge fund (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/dectmpl.asp?url=/content/dep/water/wqpc.asp). Perhaps we should wait until funds actually end up someplace else before we start alleging improprieties, though.

Clancy said...

Looks like I'm a bit slow on the Google. . .

Anonymous said...

Jeez, Clancy, use your brain you dummy :P

Glad to hear Fenton St. Market will be back. Apparently the county was considering adding a putt-putt course to the plaza? That'd be pretty sweet I think, assuming it could be pulled up on days that have performances and such scheduled.

Patrick Thornton said...

A putt-putt course doesn't belong in an urban plaza. Have the bureaucrats in MocCo no taste?

Look, I like going to a putt-putt course every five years or so just like the next person, and when I do, I'll visit some suburban strip plaza that has one. Preferably some place where I can drink and putt-putt at the same time.

The bigger issue with a putt-putt course is that any good putt-putt course has a decent amount of variety and challenge. The plaza is far too small to accommodate a putt-putt course of any real value, and if it were made that it could be quickly taken down for a big event, it certainly wouldn't have any interesting features.

In summary, putt-putt courses make sense when put in logical places. A small, urban plaza is not a logical plaza.

The plaza should have as much of the space as possible unprogrammed. Our suburban leaders don't seem to get this whole urbanism thing.

Anonymous said...

"The plaza is far too small to accommodate a putt-putt course of any real value"

Same argument was made for the small ice rink, but that baby is always packed. I'm all for "unprogramed" space, but that has equaled empty, useless concrete space so far. Even when it's nice out, almost no one is chilling in the covered concrete bowl. A small putt-putt course would easily animate and draw all types of people to the space.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone remmeber the NOAA debacle? NOAA was built and, at least, one building was immediately deemed unsafe due to, I think, abestos. It went to the courts and didn't open for many years. The developer - Foulger-Pratt.

Regarding parking by church goers; there is street parking allowed on the street for Sundays. The church has asked people not to park in the parking lot. However, on Saturday afternoon services they've announced that they won't be towed if they put a church bulletin in the car window.

Sligo said...

Re: Bag Tax

It doesn't matter how they spend the money, since revenue generated from the tax isn't the point - it's just a by-product. The idea of the tax is to push behavioral change by encouraging shoppers to use re-usable bags, and history has demonstrated that in other municipalities it has done just that. An optimal scenario would have taxes collected be zero, with no one using disposable bags.

You would think a 5 cent penalty wouldn't make much difference, but somehow it does. Now I even bring disposable bags to the mall. Before the tax, to do so probably would have never occurred to me.

Anonymous said...

Amen, Sligo.

Anonymous said...

I could be wrong- but I'm pretty sure that research has shown that when you reward consumers that bring in lets say a bad by taking money OFF of their bill they tend to do it more than if you tax them by ADDING money to their bills.

But glad to see everyone kind of just agrees no matter what the government says or does to charge people more money.

Patrick Thornton said...

If you shop at certain stores such as Whole Foods, you can both save the 5 cents by using reusable bags and also receive 5 cents from Whole Foods.

The law is designed to do two things: Reduce plastic bag use and provide for a way to fund the cleanup to the damage that plastic bags do the environment. Plastic bags take millions of years to degrade, if they ever do. It's quite unacceptable that so many people get non-reusable bags and just throw them away or, worse, throw them on the street.

Of all the taxes for people to complain about, it's pretty amazing that this tax gets so many people up in arms. This wouldn't be an issue if more people didn't litter and ruin the environment for other people, but it is an issue.

It's 5 cents, and that 5 cent bag could hold $10-20 worth of stuff. Think of that tax rate. Now look at what people pay for liquor taxes, excuse me, sin taxes.

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous 1202…….Hey dummy, that only shows the law, doesn’t show how the revenue was allocated.....idiot.

-steve

Anonymous said...

@ annonymos 1202 Also, it shows how the revenue SHOULD be allocated….but not how it ACTUALLY is allocated….just like the money for the state transportation fund…..interesting how we keep going broke on that…maybe because money deposited in that account isn’t actually used for transportation needs…..just like the bag tax…they can say it will be used to fund a project to the moon…doesn’t mean that’s what it’s actually used for. Typical dumb liberal, just spoon fed what hippie tree hugging liberals want you to believe.

-steve

Anonymous said...

"Saturday afternoon services they've announced that they won't be towed if they put a church bulletin in the car window"-- Great, I've been meaning to send a note to Whole Foods to tell them why I don't shop there anymore, and will be sure to include this tidbit. I have tried to go there on Saturday and Sunday and have just given up because of parking. Even during the week there's often no parking from noon-2pm.

Anonymous said...

For crying out loud, steve Anonymous, can't you write one comment without including the words "dummy" or some variation of it, or "crappy"? Please work on your civil discourse and anger issues.

Wait for it. . .

Anonymous said...

Lol. Got to love steve. And you wonder why there's 1 party rule in MoCo. I'm sure plenty of us would love considering a legit Republican alternative (especially to Ike), but sadly they're all too busy pandering to steve for his vote instead of, you know, educated people.

Anonymous said...

Pretty shortsighted to just have a surface lot next to Whole Foods. Should have buried a garage and had retail on the whole block above it.

Anonymous said...

@ anonnymous 3:00 Yes…pandering to my vote…pandering to the vote of the common sense American who understands the solutions is not more government and we just want to live our lives peacefully, and not worry that all our income is going to fund stupid government projects. It’s my money…I earned it. Try earning your own instead of mooching off hard working Americans.

-steve

Sligo said...

Don't bother to post any more bullshit political comments, as I will just delete them.

Anonymous said...

sligo....very freedom of speech-esque of you.

clearly you are part of the "freedom of speech, unless i dont like what you say" liberal crowd

-steve

PS, nothing wrong with discussing the problems this county faces, which is a big part of this blog it seems

Anonymous said...

"PS, nothing wrong with discussing the problems this county faces, which is a big part of this blog it seems"

Agreed. Now if only you could do so on relevant topics instead of bringing up a freakin nickel bag tax that has nothing to do with anything and calling everyone else in the world stupid. Grow up. Or move to Virginia and blab to ppl who give a crap about your nonsensical talking points.

Sligo said...

No, I'm part of the "local blogs are not a forum for general political grievances" crowd. This crap has already ruined the comments section of pretty much everywhere else on the internet.

Anonymous said...

RE: Parking at WF, I guess I'm in the minority but I find the lot to be crowded but manageable. I've been multiple times on weeknights and on the weekends and I usually find a spot within 2 minutes. It's not the best situation but that's the deal when you live in a somewhat urban area...parking usually stinks. When the weather is decent, I'd walk anyway.

As far as "steve" goes, it's been mentioned before but just ignore the troll and he'll go back to watching Fox News.

Sligo said...

I love walking to Whole Foods, but what and how much I can buy is severely limited when I do. Maybe I'll become one of those selfish people who steals a shopping cart every time they buy groceries.

Julia said...

I went to Society on Friday for their "soft opening". It was crowded (with the most attractive group of people I've ever seen in Silver Spring). Service was slow at the bar due to not being able to get to the bar because of the crowd. I missed their free food offerings that night but they had some good beers on tap (Blue Moon, Guinness, Love Potion #9) . The place has great ambiance and I will return again soon to try the food. This might be my new hangout after work! Also, Vernon Davis of the SF 49ers graced everyone with his presence that night.

Trixie said...

Sligo: One of the great things about Wordpress versus Blogger is that you can block IP addresses and even commenter names. When the comment section of my blog became overrun with nasty comments from one or two angry people with serious mental health issues, I moved over to Wordpress, and blocked them. I have never regretted it. Your loyal readers will follow you.

Robert said...

Concerning: "he law is designed to do two things: Reduce plastic bag use and provide for a way to fund the cleanup to the damage that plastic bags do the environment. Plastic bags take millions of years to degrade, if they ever do."

So why did they tax biodegradable PAPER bags, too? And why did they give a full 20% of the money collected to the merchant collecting the tax? That's sure a lot more than the state allows them to keep of the sales tax.

The bag tax in Montgomery County was very poorly designed and ought to be repealed and replaced with a more reasonable system to discourage plastic bags.

Anonymous said...

I hate the bag tax. I think it's stupid. I seriously doubt that the $ collected is used to keep the local waterways clean. But you don't see hardly any plastic bags floating around anymore, so maybe there is some good in the bag tax.
Re: Whole Foods DTSS--I live in Forest Glen right outside the Beltway. I used to go to WF DTSS after work on weekdays (after 7pm) and on weekend afternoons. The parking situation in the surface lot is so bad that I STOPPED going to WF DTSS and Strosnider's. I now go to WF either in Rockville/White Flint or in Friendship Heights on the way home from work, or when I'm on that side of Connecticut Avenue on the weekends. The parking garages at both places are much easier to deal with, and the first 2 hrs @ both stores is free (w/validation @ Friendship Heights).
Maybe I'll go to Society this weekend.

Anonymous said...

Ate at Society tonight. I am going to try to be diplomatic because it is obviously only like the 3rd night they have been open and you gotta expect things won't be running on all 6 cylinders.

On the "needs improvement" side: service hiccups (forgot to bring our appetizer), lukewarm food, very chewy calamari.

On the plus side: gorgeous decor, really good cocktails, good dessert.

Stuart said...

Sorry that I don't have a reference, but from memory, part of the development agreement that removed the county's metered surface lot adjacent to St. Michaels (where Whole Foods and the Whole Foods lot now stands) allowed the church to use the parking spaces in the aisle right next to the church during services and possibly during other times. I don't know the specific details of that agreement, but it seemed like a fair arrangement.

By the way, the Whole Foods parking lot is now a private lot, as is the small lot at Georgia and Colesville (the meters there are not county meters).

Stuart

> And for those who claim that churchgoers are not using the lot, why is the far side of the lot filled on Sunday mornings when the side closest to Whole foods has open spots? Is it just that shoppers want a little extra exercise?

Takoma Parker said...

It's gettin' REAL in the Whole Foods parking lot!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFc1pr2yUU

Terry said...

"Does anyone remmeber the NOAA debacle? NOAA was built and, at least, one building was immediately deemed unsafe due to, I think, abestos. It went to the courts and didn't open for many years. The developer - Foulger-Pratt."

Not asbestos. The building at the bottom of the hill, that's actually owned by GSA not Folger-Pratt, was closed and extensively renovated due to health problems. It turns out that when the concrete was poured for the floors that they weren't level. They sloped down toward the middle. The contractor leveled them by basically pouring in a substance that filled the bowl towards the center and created a level surface across the whole floor. Unfortunately, the contractor used a product not meant for indoor use and it wasn't cured properly to boot. When people occupied the building, the noticed some kind of liquid seeping up through the carpets and people were feeling ill when in the building. The liquid was from that filler substance. The building was emptied, the carpets torn up, and all that filler substance removed. The correct substance was then used and cured correctly. Carpets back down, people moved in, and the building is fine for use today and has been for years.

Anonymous said...

So why did they tax biodegradable PAPER bags, too? And why did they give a full 20% of the money collected to the merchant collecting the tax? That's sure a lot more than the state allows them to keep of the sales tax.

The bag tax in Montgomery County was very poorly designed and ought to be repealed and replaced with a more reasonable system to discourage plastic bags."

This. I'm convinced that people use thier political leanings without THINKING about the entire law. I was going to bring this up to sligo (I'm the anon that said that REWARDING people is smarter than PUNISHING people but then that doesn't line the counties coffers with money does it?).

Anyway- people have every right to be angry since we live in Montgomery county and it hampers our way of life here.

In any case, I too want to check out society. I'm excited from the reports of "attractive people". Here? In DTSS? Wow.

Sligo said...

Paper bags still constitute excess waste, even if they don't fly around and get caught in trees like their plastic counterparts. At first I missed the paper grocery bags because I used them to collect paper recycling at home, but then I invested in a nice recycling bag that works much better.

Anonymous said...

"But you don't see hardly any plastic bags floating around anymore, so maybe there is some good in the bag tax."

I just participated in a clean up on the Potomac River and let me tell you, plastic bags are still floating around. Maybe you should go clean up one of the local waterways and educate yourself.

Anonymous said...

The bag tax just went into effect on 1/1. All of the plastic bags that have been tossed for years aren't going to miraculously disappear in 3 months.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, obviously cutting down trees for disposable paper bags is still wasteful, albeit 100x better than plastic bags. I assume that was the intention of expanding on the DC law to include them. There's no doubt the fee has worked in other communities and will work in ours. If you don't like it, then sorry. Move to South Dakota if you want to live alone and not care about the effect your actions have on the greater community.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if we passed laws that directly harmed the environment and then said: if you don't like it tough- move to California where they care about that sort of stuff......how would you react to that comment?

In any case, it's pretty obvious the protect the environment thing was kind of easily debunked with the paper bags being added in such a tax...but whatever.

Moving on: Let's focus on Society and how it will hopefully change this area for the better.

Anonymous said...

Plastic bags are a major hazard for wildlife and degrade far more slowly that paper bags. While neither should pollute our environment, plastic is the worse of the two.

I'm proud to be tree hugger. One of the things that makes Silver Spring great is our abundance of old growth trees.

Anonymous said...

You guys should read the Patch comments on this issue. There are some seriously psychotic people out there talking about how they drive half an hour or more to shop in VA and litter their plastic bags on purpose now. I mean I'm sure some of them are just beating their chest online, but even if they don't actually follow through it's a mind bogglingly dumb thing to take pride in.

Also, the speculation that the county is just doing this to make money or will spend the money on illegal immigrants or something is rampant. Never mind the fact that the county could walk around picking up pennies on the street and make more money than what this fee will garner. Okay, so that's a slight exaggeration, but still. It's a completely insignificant amount of money relative to the county's budget. Some people in this county seriously need medication.

Anonymous said...

You don't see this fee increasing over time? Give me a break.

Again- no one has addressed this one fact:

People respond to rewards more than punishments. If you reward people for brining in your own bag and not using theirs by giving a discount that the county covers you would do more good than create fees that will increase over time.

But let's just ignore that.

And again -if it were just a PLASTIC bag tax I think it would seem more genuine

Anonymous said...

"Again- no one has addressed this one fact:

People respond to rewards more than punishments."

Because you're making the statement without any facts backing it up. I'm sure some ppl took advantage of the Whole Foods 5 cents off (do they still do that in conjunction with this?), but most people didn't.

I certainly would hope the 5 cents goes if it's necessary (from DC we can see that 5 cents has been plenty to drastically curb usage, so I doubt it'll need to go up). VA has proposals for 20 cents a bag.

Anonymous said...

"Again- no one has addressed this one fact:"

Maybe no one has addressed it because you (or whomever the original poster was that made the point) utterly failed to substantiate it.

Enitrely anecdotally, but the $.05 refund WF gave prior to the legislation never spurred me to bring my own bag. The new bag tax does.

Anonymous said...

And I can't believe you don't understand how disposable paper bags are bad as well. Obviously, they aren't as bad as plastic when it comes to decay, but it's still 14 million trees cut down a year for a disposable, unnecessary product. Curbing usage makes plenty of sense.

Terry said...

"I just participated in a clean up on the Potomac River and let me tell you, plastic bags are still floating around."

Two points. One, there are more jurisdictions than just Montgomery County draining into the Potomac. Two, even if all areas in the Potomac watershed did ban plastic shopping bags, there are a LOT of them out there blowing around or working their way down the waterways. We'll see them for a while yet, but Montgomery County is added a lot less than they used to.

Anonymous said...

I'm not going to get into this bag tax debate - it's been pounded to death and then pounded some more.

However, one thing I had suggested before, and I still believe makes sense, is to give 5 cents back for every bag returned. Therefore, those people who do use plastic bags, on purpose or because they just forgot their reusble bag, won't feel compelled to keep them and use it in a non-positive way.

Plus, for those wanting reward instead of punishment here it is.

Sligo said...

"However, one thing I had suggested before, and I still believe makes sense, is to give 5 cents back for every bag returned."

This would never work for one reason - fraud. Think about it in terms of soda bottles. A lot of states will give you a 5 cent refund for each bottle returned. Of course, it's not economically feasible to move large numbers of soda bottles or cans from one state to the next to try and take advantage of this. (See the Seinfeld episode where they try and drive a truck full of recyclables to Michigan.) However, you could collect tons of bags elsewhere at no cost and easily move them to Montgomery County and trade them in for 5 cents each.

Anonymous said...

No problem. Limit it to 5 bags returned at a time and only take back bags with your store name on it.

Sligo said...

Then the store has a bunch of filthy bags to deal with. I doubt they'd buy into that.

Anonymous said...

Anyone know what hotel this is?

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Prostitution-Arrest-Silver-Spring-Hotel-144677215.html

County employee said...

If the bag tax only applied to plastic bags, everyone would request paper bags. Paper bags are more expensive for retailers than plastic bags, so that would drive up their costs and presumably drive up prices. At present, retailers in D.C. and Montgomery County report their costs for bags are going down because people are using less.

Anonymous said...

"Then the store has a bunch of filthy bags to deal with. I doubt they'd buy into that."

Aww... Now you're just just trying to crush my idea. Most big stores already have recycling bag bins.

Sligo said...

Good point. The supermarkets do.

Patrick Thornton said...

At of the day, this bag tax is so minor compared to other much larger taxes, and it directly benefits a real issue. If you used to use 10 plastic bags a week, you're now paying 50 cents a week in bag taxes that can easily be offset by purchasing resuable bags.

When I look at my property tax bills and then look at the prospect of purchasing 5 $0.99 resuable bags that will last me a few years, I don't see this as a big issue.

There is something about wrecking the environment that gets people so fired up. People don't really bat an eye at liquor taxes, but when it comes to taxing people for the environmental damage they are causing, whoa, watch out.

Lynn said...

Not only does WF give you .05 for every bag you bring, Snider's does the same thing as do other stores. Here is both the stick and the carrot - no .05 charge + credit. Whenever a bag is made, energy is consumed and most of our electricity is from coal(like it or not). Bag tax makes sense, and hopefully makes purchasers more sensible.

Anonymous said...

Sligo said...
"I love walking to Whole Foods, but what and how much I can buy is severely limited when I do. Maybe I'll become one of those selfish people who steals a shopping cart every time they buy groceries"


They are putting breaks on those things... so this plan won't get you far....knee slap, knee slap.


Steve,
I am conservative and agree with your outlook on politics, but man the attacks/name calling and somewhat unrelated arguments is hurting our rep (because unfortunately I will get lumped in with you). The ad hominem attacks just don't accomplish much. Your arguments/name calling are only making people push your perspectives on life/politics further out of their minds. This is accomplishing exactly the opposite of what you are trying to communicate.

Clancy said...

Anon at 2:04, it looks like it was the Crowne Plaza on Georgia Avenue. (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/Apps/Police/News/NA_details.asp?NaID=6431)

If you're on Twitter and are interested in county crime and policing, you might want to follow @mcpnews

Terry said...

"Anyone know what hotel this is?http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Prostitution-Arrest-Silver-Spring-Hotel-144677215.html"

In the article, it says it's the Crown Plaza which is the old Holiday Inn on Georgia near the intersection with Spring Street. Catty corner from the Georgian, more or less.

Anonymous said...

The article wasn't updated with the location until this morning, but thanks.

Anonymous said...

70 comments and no mention of Shitty Place Mall - must be some kind of record!

Anonymous said...

Sligo, it's worth noting that you can also request free recycling bins from Montgomery County:

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/apps/dep/solidwaste/store/index.asp?var_action=prod_detail&id=11

Anonymous said...

Shitty Place Mall. Hoodies. Discuss.

There you go :)

Anonymous said...

RE: Parking at Whole Foods ... all you need to do is pull your car into one of the lanes, and stop near the back of the lane. Within 30 seconds you'll see someone walking to their car in your lane. Pull up next to that car and put your blinker on. It's not that hard.

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