Wednesday, August 03, 2011

Update: Shitty Place to Remain Shitty Indefinitely

Because they have the time and resources to do things like "journalism", the Gazette contacted the chairman of City Place property manager Petrie Ross Ventures to get additional details on the upcoming transition of City Place into an outlet mall.

Well, don't get too excited for the mall's supposed "grand re-opening" later this year, people, because it turns out this event is unlikely to occur. After owning/managing the mall for four years, Petrie Ross still has no clue what they want to do with this white elephant:

Despite Internet rumors on Silver Spring blogs and news sites, the plans, created by EWB Development LLC, by no means reflect the final decision, Petrie said.

“The site is trying to promote the idea,” he said. “We haven’t decided whether to go in that direction yet.”
"Internet rumors?" Petrie Ross' partner put up a multimedia website promoting the "Outlets at Silver Spring" and there was a story about the mall's conversion to outlets included in a industry trade magazine last October.  It would appear that in this case that clearly the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

Bottom line: Shitty Place forever. Demolition is the only solution now.



50 comments:

Clancy said...

Sounds like somebody from accounting needs to head over to PR to explain how this whole tax dodge thing works. . .

Terry in Silver Spring said...

Darn it. I saw that Dan at Just Up the Pike said one of the partners was involved with the Perryville outlets. I thought for a minute that this might come true and I'd have a Jones New York outlet right here in Silver Spring (great women's clothes, particularly for work).

I'm bummed.

Anonymous said...

Someday it'll be better...someday....
It is really remarkable that such prime real estate is still being used so inefficiently.

Anonymous said...

Gut it...build indoor rock climbing facility...then I would actually patronize the space.

Anonymous said...

Indefinitely is too strong a word, Sligo. The owners clearly said they will make a decision in a few months on which direction to take. Stay calm, people...I know we ALL wish Shitty Place would be transformed now, but it just doesn't happen that quickly, especially in the middle of a recession. We're fortunate the asset was purchased and is being managed by high-quality companies with very good reputations and experience in repositioning these types of assets. They are in it for the profit as well so it's in their best interest to find the highest and best use for the site...which may or may not be tearing it down and starting over.

Sligo said...

Anonymous:

Regardless of their successes with other projects, Petrie Ross has been managing this property for FOUR YEARS now and I can't name a single notable tenant they've attracted in that time. The fact that they are still deciding what to do with the place doesn't inspire a high level of confidence.

Anonymous said...

Gut it...build indoor rock climbing facility...then I would actually patronize the space.

Not sure if serious ...

Anonymous said...

Rock climbing wall, paintball, laser tag, miniature golf! The sky's the limit! Or just bulldoze and build condos+underground parking+first floor retail.

JS said...

World's largest police station / curfew-breaker holding area?

Anonymous said...

@JS--best suggestion yet!

Anonymous said...

Petrie Ross has been the managing agent for four years, but there have been multiple OWNERS...and it is the owners who get to choose the direction of repositioning. If anyone should take blame, it is the owner. I work for a private (very large) commercial real estate company and can tell from loads of experience: many owners gunk up the process of improving a single asset because they are so busy dealing with the rest of their portfolio. A good analogy would be: when you own half the Monopoly board, sometimes replacing the four houses on St. Charles with a hotel isn't your highest priority, even though you know the houses suck and a hotel would bring in more revenue.

Anonymous said...

Given the multiple owners, the lead time to reposition a large asset like City Place, and the awful retail economy, it's not surprising we haven't seen much change (just a lot of planning):

2007: Petrie Ross Ventures bought the property and the county approved plans to transform the mall into an 18- to 20-story building with offices and retail space.

2008: Walter Petrie bought out his partners to become the sole owner.

2010: Hutensky bought City Place at the end of July 2010 for $22.8 million and hired Petrie Ross to manage the property.

2010 - 2011: Petrie Ross develops four concepts for repositioning the mall (one of which is The Outlets). Says announcement will be made in a few months as to the direction.

For all we know, they have been negotiating leases, etc. with major tenants that would be announced in conjunction with all the PR that comes with a new concept.

AverageBro.com said...

Why not convert a portion of the facility into a sports arena/graduation cermony center? Isn't MoCo always having to send graduations elsewhere (DC, PG) instead of hosting them here?

Gut/reconfig the lower two levels into a "bowl" with seating for up to 5,000. It could double as a multipurpose arena for high school basketball. Sell the naming rights, and find some way to cordon it off from the upper levels, which can still become an outlet mall. Dual purposes, one civic, one entirely commercial.

Pie in the sky, I know, but who ever thought that abandoned building across the street would become a world class concert hall?

Anonymous said...

@AverageBro: "The Community" would have a hard time with your proposal because "The Community" is afraid of anything that might bring more people to downtown Silver Spring, especially in the volume you describe below. Can you imagine the calamity "The Community" would have to endure if The Fillmore (2K people) and The Average Bro Center (5K people) were to let out at the same time!

:)

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
Gut it...build indoor rock climbing facility...then I would actually patronize the space.

Not sure if serious ..."

Yes...although I realize this will never happen. Everyone's got different interests and while I welcome better shopping options close by, I'd rather have something really cool and unique (in addition to AFI and Fillmore), especially something that involves active lifestyles.

I believe the closest rock climbing gym is in Rockville but I'd rather spend my money here than there.

Anonymous said...

hahaha, I'd love to see the owner turn their $22,8000,000 investment into a rock climbing wall, grossing $56 a day.

Mimi said...

I keep trying to think of whether there must be some nefarious reason for the owners/operators to want City Place to fail. Sort of like when landlords let their buildings get truly awful so that rent-control tenants will leave and can be replaced with market-rate or condo conversions or whatnot. City Place is like a black hole. It's so weird. I hope they don't come up with something terrible.

Anonymous said...

condos....or I agree with JS.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
hahaha, I'd love to see the owner turn their $22,8000,000 investment into a rock climbing wall, grossing $56 a day."

Yep...which is why I said I realize it will never happen. Oh well, I'll keep my share of the $56/day and spend it elsewhere...most definitely not at whatever crap fills City Place...

Isayaah Parker said...

I maintain that they should convert Shitty Place into a Children's Museum or Science Center. With all the little kids on Ellsworth having temper tantrums, I'm sure a Science Center, Aquarium, Children's Museum would be a HIT! Not everyone wants to venture into DC for said attractions, I.E. the Fillmore.

Anonymous said...

Isayaah, although it could be nice to have a children's museum or science center with some kind of collaboration with Discovery, it is not going to be profitable with all the free Smithsonian museums. True, not everyone will want to venture into DC, but that's only a small minority and not enough to support that kind of venture in Silver Spring. It's definitely either retail/office/mix of the 2 types.

Thayer Avenue said...

Sure - some sort of children's or nature/marine museum would be great. No one would pay for that, you say? Because of all the free Smithsonian Museums? Particularly, in Silver Spring? While you're at it, you should draft a memo to the Spy Museum. Oh - and to the Corcoran. And the Phillips Collection. And the Newseum. Tell them no one is going to show up and pay and they should close up shop. Because they charge people.

Anonymous said...

I think the reason those museums can charge and still be successful is because they are located in DC and close to a whole bunch of other attractions that appeal to a wide variety of people. Suppose if the Newseum were located in DTSS: I don't think it will be as successful because not many will travel to SS just for the sake of visiting the Newseum. I doubt it has that kind of pull. What other things can they see in SS?

Anonymous said...

Turn it into Thunderdome and have Pop Gun county contestants battle the SK8boarders.

Anonymous said...

and dtss fails again. here come the delusional butthurt super dtss fans to defend how this is a great thing for dtss somehow.

Anonymous said...

here comes the nova guy - the most chemically imbalanced troll around

Isayaah Parker said...

I disagree. I am sure people will pay to go to a Science Center or Children's museum in downtown silver spring because for one the SMITHSONIAN is not a children's museum last time I checked. I am talking about a CREATIVE INTERACTIVE CHILDREN'S MUSEUM that is unlike anything in DC, It's time for us to think outside of the box rather than having some second hand retail that will be sure to close up shop in a years time. Museums are permanent for the most part and with all the families in the area, I don't see how my idea is not workable. We keep talking about teenagers in Silver Spring who have nothing to do, but when people mention museums and science centers, planetariums and things of that sort to fill SHITTY PLACE, you shut the idea down in favor of more worthless retail that comes and goes. Museums are not like retail, just because there's a museum in DC does not mean the suburbs can't support one, same with a music hall. They work differently. There are other major cities with MAJOR museums outside of the city limits as well as inside, BOTH being successful.

Isayaah Parker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Isayaah Parker said...

and furthermore, you talk about successful museums in DC being adjacent to other great things, making them great attractions, HELLO? Silver Spring is becoming a DESTINATION! Every destination has to have great attractions, especially museums. Why can't silver spring have museums just because Washington D.C. is down the street? We can have a music hall, AFI, pyramid atlantic, Discovery, but we can't have a damn museum? or Aquarium/science center etc.? Some of you need to have some faith. Silver Spring will never become a destination like we want it to be if we keep limiting ourselves to condos and retail for teenagers. What about a SPECIALTY MUSEUM that can only be found in Silver Spring. I'm not talking about a generic Smithsonian type museum.

Anonymous said...

Why not a museum and a rock climbing wall? A movie theater showing rerun movies on the cheap? An indoor mountain biking space? Water slides? Think beyond retail people.

Anonymous said...

Surely, one of their options on the table has to be creating some sort of hub of entertainment attraction. Perhaps "Legoland Discovery Center" family attraction which will be unique to the DC region...and a special appearance by Chompie made out of Legos!

Anonymous said...

The county could buy it and sell it to Jerry McCoy for $1. Jerry could then use it for his Silver Spring Hysterical Museum. The mall is big enough so that Jerry could go from collecting postcards and bottles to collecting entire buildings and relocating them to the mall. It would be the largest indoor hysterical building collection in the world.

Or, the owners could simply bulldoze it.

Isayaah Parker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Isayaah Parker said...

I sense that you guys are being sarcastic. No need to be ridiculous. And I LOVE LOVE LOVE legos and often spend way too much time in the Lego store in Arundel Mills with 6 year olds having more fun than they do. I think a Lego museum would be awesome!!! They could make escalators made out of Legos! Anyway, deep inside, some of you would actually be first in line if Legoland opened or a manmade hot springs resort or a 24 hour foam party! Honestly, people are not interested in coming to downtown silver spring for Outlets...Silver Spring has a unique vibe about it and we need something original in that space, Malls are a thing of a past. (added sarcasm attached to the hot springs resort and foam party) but a unique large interactive multi story museum would be the way to go

Anonymous said...

Actually, I was being serious when I suggested Legoland. I think it would be a perfect fit for the building. They already have 2 open (Chicago, Dallas) and 2 more on the way (Atlanta, Kansas City). Well, one can only dream this might happen...

http://www.legolanddiscoverycenter.com/default.aspx

Lee said...

How about massively rebuilding the interior into some true IMAX auditoriums? Wishful thinking, I know.

Isayaah Parker said...

My mistake, I never knew there was even such a thing as Legoland, wow now I REALLY REALLY WANT ONE! I'm a big kid!

Terry in Silver Spring said...

Check out the City Paper web site. They wrote an article about this blog and the Chompy/Chompie issue, even consulting a law professor.

Anonymous said...

What to do with City Place?

3....2...1...BOOM!

Anonymous said...

All of this Demolishing BS talk is definitely the WRONG move for Downtown Silver Spring. The real issue is that the Owner, Local Politicians, anti-Growth Special Interest Groups, and Maryland Hating Virginians are terrified of any possibilities of Silver Spring Developing a Major Upscale Indoor Shopping Mall that will attract people from All parts of the DC area including DC tourists. Virginia is enjoying the revenue/economic growth from the large population(from mostly tax paying Marylanders due to the Fact that Maryland does not have a lot of upscale indoor Major Malls) of people shopping at the Arlington's Pentagon City, Tysons Corner(I & II), Fairfax's Fair Oaks Mall, and Springfield's Springfield Mall. If demolition of City Place was the "best option" then why haven't they demolished Arlington's Ballston Commons, or Manassas's Manassas Mall????????

Anonymous said...

I'd love some UPSCALE shopping (a la Tysons II--I know, keep dreaming), or at least some better shopping (even though the retail economy sucks)? How about a posh bowling alley similar to, or much nicer than, Lucky Strike??

Anonymous said...

Anonymous August 03, 2011 4:18:00 PM said...

hahaha, I'd love to see the owner turn their $22,8000,000 investment into a rock climbing wall, grossing $56 a day.

re: You'd rather see ALL of Suburban Maryland and the Baltimore area reduced back to Urban Decay, Open Fields and Forrest while Virgina Continues to build itself into the 21st Century LA/Rodeo Drive/Silicon Valley of the East(South) with Major Upscale Indoor Malls, 16 Lane Freeways, Subways going 50 Miles outside of Downtown DC, Clusters of Office Towers filled with Fortune 500/HQ's/High Tech IT Businesses.

Anonymous said...

Mimi said...

I keep trying to think of whether there must be some nefarious reason for the owners/operators to want City Place to fail. Sort of like when landlords let their buildings get truly awful so that rent-control tenants will leave and can be replaced with market-rate or condo conversions or whatnot. City Place is like a black hole. It's so weird. I hope they don't come up with something terrible.

re: All I want to know is why DC and NOVA does not have a problem with filling the vacant retail spaces in their shopping centers but Prince Georges County and Silver Spring continues to suffer from Upscale Retail Vacancies. It is crazy as Hell when there are Vultures that are pushing for Eastern Montgomery County/Silver Spring and Prince Georges County to continue to FALL behind DC/NOVA in Attracting Upscale Retail Shopping Malls/Single Stores, Office Towers, etc.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous August 04, 2011 5:33:00 PM said...

Why not a museum and a rock climbing wall? A movie theater showing rerun movies on the cheap? An indoor mountain biking space? Water slides? Think beyond retail people.

re: Been there done that all has failed. Converting City place to an Upscale Retail Center with the new 8 story Office Tower will be the ONLY option that WILL REVIVE City Place. Other options(the Outlet is not a bad option as long as it is upscale) is destine for FAILURE and an Up-most Disrespect to Silver Spring........

Anonymous said...

Anonymous August 04, 2011 7:11:00 PM said...

The county could buy it and sell it to Jerry McCoy for $1. Jerry could then use it for his Silver Spring Hysterical Museum. The mall is big enough so that Jerry could go from collecting postcards and bottles to collecting entire buildings and relocating them to the mall. It would be the largest indoor hysterical building collection in the world.

Or, the owners could simply bulldoze it.

re: Or the Owners can be forced into Legal Action resulting into High Fines if they are refusing to push for more Upscale Retail inside of City Place.

It has happened and it can happen.........

Anonymous said...

Anonymous August 05, 2011 2:17:00 PM said...

What to do with City Place?

3....2...1...BOOM!

re: Oh what a Maryland Hater's dream to Demolish ALL of the Indoor Malls and add on to Virginia's revenue with All of the Tax Paying Marylanders shopping at Tyson's Corner, Pentagon City, Fair Oaks Mall, Dulles Town Center Mall, Springfield Mall, etc.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous August 06, 2011 7:30:00 AM said...

I'd love some UPSCALE shopping (a la Tysons II--I know, keep dreaming), or at least some better shopping (even though the retail economy sucks)? How about a posh bowling alley similar to, or much nicer than, Lucky Strike??

re: White Oak already has a Bowling Alley. In order for Downtown Silver Spring to survive is to concentrate on EXPANDING Office/Hospitality/Upscale Retail Growth. Silver Spring has more than enough residential housing so now it is time for Office Growth and Upscale Retail to catch up......

Saturday,

Anonymous said...

white oak may already have a bowling alley, but I'll bet it's not an upscale one and most folks aren't going to white oak to bowl if they already don't live around white oak.

Anonymous said...

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

wacca said...

シンプルでナチュラルな洋服を探すならシンプルおしゃれ雑記へ

楽天のナチュラルなファッションブログならシンプルおしゃれ雑記をご覧ください。