Monday, March 31, 2008

Live Nation: Straight From the Horse's Mouth

As I mentioned last week, myself and representatives of the Silver Spring Penguin and Thayeravenue.com recently met this past with Live Nation's Ted Mankin. It's been a few days and I didn't take notes, so I am relying on my hazy memories of the discussion. I'm sure the aforementioned bloggers can expand on that which I do recall. Special thanks go out to Mike D. for brokering the meeting.

We rendezvoused with Ted on Thursday night in in the dimly-lit recesses of the Quarry House Tavern's back room. Contrary to popular belief, Live Nation employees don't actually dine on the souls of local musicians. Well, unless they were ground it to Ted's hummus. We got to discussing the current state of the live music scene in Washington and how it might change with the introduction of the Fillmore Silver Spring. Ted lamented the relative dearth of music venues in the DC area, noting that in some ways, Baltimore has better options for live shows.

Far from being a LA carpetbagger, Ted hails from the DC area (Virginia, but we'll that slide) and has been booking shows in the area for some time at venues that include Constitution Hall and Nissan Pavilion. He believes that adding a new venue will grow the pie rather than just simply resulting in a bigger share of the live music business around Washington for Live Nation. The opening of the Fillmore is still a couple years away, but the folks at Live Nation already have big plans. Yeah, two years seems a long time to wait but one day you'll wake up and realize, "wow, the Fillmore is open already?" And then you'll also come to the realization that you are getting old a lot faster than you previously thought. But I digress...

Anyway, here's some of my recollections of what we discussed that evening:

- Ticket prices would probably average around $15-$25 or so. There won't be $100 Michael Bolton shows like there are at certain other venues. The tickets would be sold through Live Nations' not-yet-launched ticketing system, which will hopefully have lower fees than Ticketbastard's. ($4 to print your own ticket!)

- The Fillmore will be booked with local tastes taken into consideration; the shows in Silver Spring won't be a mirror image of the schedule in, say, Philadelphia. There will also be plenty of opportunities for local artists to take the stage. The exclusion of local artists seemed to be one of the (apparently unfounded) fears regarding the Fillmore.

- In addition to musical performances, there would likely be the occasional comedy show at the Fillmore. Unsurprisingly, Lewis Black's name came up as a potential act.

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- If there's not a show on a particular evening, the place won't be open as a bar, contrary to what some local pols may have thought. (The word "saloon" was used at some point in reference to this. All I could picture were swinging doors, spurs and gunfights.)

- There's been discussions between Live Nation and AFI with regard to joint productions that integrate music, film, etc. An example would be screenings at AFI that would be done in conjunction with a particular artist's performance across the street. So musicians like Moby or Beck who fancy themselves multimedia artists could perform at the Fillmore while some of their other work was shown at AFI. According to Ted, the physical infrastructure that will link the two venues is already being installed.

- In speaking with bands about Live Nation's future Silver Spring venue, Seth Hurwitz of IMP has reportedly described Silver Spring's location as being "way, way, out there", or something to that effect. This just goes to show that IMP doesn't give a crap about Silver Spring, unless it can be used as a pawn to keep out the competition.

- Live Nation doesn't prevent bands from playing at venues other than their own with exclusive contracts if the artist so desires. So, theoretically an act could perform at both the Fillmore and the 9:30 club.

- Perhaps Silver Spring could host a winter jazz festival to supplement their annual summer one. Of course, with all the budget cuts these days, maybe even the existing one will get kicked to the curb.
I'm sure there's a lot I didn't address, so if you'd like to learn more about the Fillmore and pose any questions directly to Live Nation, Ted will be available at a community meeting on April 8th at 7:30 in the Lee building.

It should be noted that Live Nation has just inked an deal with U2, setting up the inevitable exclusive club date that the band will perform on the Fillmore's opening night (no, really). The only scenario could possibly surpass this in Greatness Quotient if the original members of Guns N' Roses set aside their differences for a single night to play a one-time-only set in Silver Spring. After leaving the stage following their fifth encore, the band would pile in Slash's Mustang and cruise around until they found an adequate cliff to drive over, making the evening's performance all the more legendary and ensuring that the world will never be submitted to Chinese Democracy.

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(Speaking of getting old fast and Guns N' Roses, I just realized this weekend that "Sweet Child o' Mine" was released OVER TWENTY F'N YEARS AGO.)

UPDATE: Fears of Jay-Z playing the Silver Spring Fillmore expressed in neighborhood listservs are completely unfounded, regardless of his recent deal with Live Nation. His upcoming concert this weekend is at the Verizon Center... just a tad bit bigger than the Fillmore will be. The same is true for other big Live Nation artists, including Madonna and U2 (sadly). Let's be realistic as far as what level of acts we're going to get here. Perhaps the Fillmore will be up and running in time for the New Kids' reunion concert - ladies, you know you still harbor a crush from sixth grade. (Although I don't see how you can look at Donnie Wahlberg the same way after watching him blow his brains out in Bruce Willis' bathroom.)



39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sligo:
Thanks for the information. I know this may be hard to believe, especially on April Fool's Day, but even though I live close to DTSS, and have done so for over twenty years, I have no opinion about who is best for DTSS -- in this whole great music hall debate -- so I do appreciate your time and effort to shed light on the Fillmore perspective. Sounds promising. I hope it lives up to the billing. And speaking of billing, the U2 thing is an April Fool's joke, right?

Sligo said...

Probably more wishful thinking than an April Fool's joke...

chaz said...

Sigh.

I appreciate that a Livenation rep was willing to do some propagan--excuse me, blogger outreach, and at this point, it's Fillmore or nothing--so I, for one, welcome our new Live Nation overlords, BUT...

The "Baltimore has better options" argument is specious on any level. There are nice clubs in Baltimore, no doubt (8x10, Talking Head, Ottobar, Recher), but the list you linked includes Cancun Cantina, Howl at the Moon, and friggin' Power Plant Live--the kind of manfactured-character, jagerbomb special nightclubs that are exactly what Silver Springers don't want (not that the Fillmore will be ,anything like that, but...). There are PLENTY of good music venues in DC, some of which are already booking through Livenation. One more will be nice, but the Bmore argument is BS.

The chances that Live Nation's ticket surcharges will be reasonable are 0%. If a negative percentage could mathematically describe odds, I would use it. Prove me wrong, Live Nation. Live Nation hasn't been happy that the ticket fees for their venues and bookings go to Ticketmaster, so they've decided to enter the ticket business themselves. When you can choose whether to use Ticketmaster, Live Nation, or some other service to buy tickets for the same show, that will be real, price-driven competition.

On the other hand, the AFI-Fillmore partnership sounds promising, although I think your sights may be set a little high reagarding acts, and the "physical infrastructure that will link the two venues is already being installed" statement is odd. Can you/they be more specific?

Thanks for the heads up on the April 8 meeting, I'm going to try and make it.

Sligo said...

I probably wasn't clear on the Baltimore part... unfortunately I don't remember the specifics of that portion of the conversation.

With regard to the "physical infrastructure", Ted indicated that they were connecting the two venues via cables... perhaps a live feed from a performance at the Fillmore could be piped into the AFI theater (for whatever purposes this might have).

Roger said...

Sligo,
I'm sorry that you are blindly being used as a mouthpiece for Live Nation. Did Ted tell you about how badly Live Nation's previous company ran the club in Washington, DC called NATION? Remember when it was closed down because of all the drugs? Maybe you don't. Live Nation and it's former parent company Clear Channel have done a poor job running clubs in the DC area for the last decade. They say they've been around for 30 years, but every one of their clubs has closed down because they did a shitty job running them. What makes you think Fillmore will be better? The only reason why they chose Silver Spring is because the county and state are giving them millions in corporate welfare. Millions that could be used for schools and investments in the arts & humanities. I found it downright ignorant that you can claim IMP is the bad guy here. They don't have billions of dollars in sales like Live Nation, but they are local and have been bringing the DC area the best music for as long as Live Nation claims to have been around the DC area. Sligo, I urge you to do some research and see how Live Nation is not the angel you paint the corporation to be. And stop being a lapdog for Ike. Bloggers are supposed to be the ones who question the official story, not the ones being co-opted into doing the work of the world's largest live entertainment corporation.
~Roger

b said...

In Feburary I met Bruce Lee by accident and we talked for about 30 min. on Live Nation. He told me that Murray Horitz (director of AFI Silver), was all excited about doing joint ventures with Live Nation like they currently do with Discovery. Murray wants to run cable under Colesville Rd. so AFI Silver can play live feeds on their screens during these events.

Now, if we can just make the connection between Discovery (thru AFI)to Live Nation, maybe we can get Lee to throw out money at the grand opening cutting our ticket cost.

Sligo said...

Yes, IMP is automatically so righteous and good because they are "small" and local any larger corporation can only have evil intentions. If what I am told is true, IMP was disparaging Silver Spring as some backwater that acts shouldn't be interested in playing - among other things. I won't re-hash my other beefs with IMP, but you can read the older posts if you want a recap.

I'm not saying Live Nation is perfect in every regard, but at the same time, they don't deserve to be unfairly demonized the way they have been.

Anyway, I was just passing along some information that was provided to me by Live Nation, who will PROBABLY be operating the club in that space if the "community" doesn't doom it to another 25 years of vacancy.

Perhaps instead of trying to provide what information I could get from a first person source, I should just operate solely on hearsay, which is what a certain segment of population continues to do.

I'm not getting paid (unfortunately) for any of this, and as a blogger I'm not "supposed" to do anything in particular.

Roger said...

Sligo,

Did Ted pay for that food? In some ways you were invited to talk about the Fillmore just so that you'd write this post. Bloggers aren't supposed to do anything special but what they choose to write about. Your blog is great for this, and I am appreciative of it. But there must be a fine line in your objectivity or your text becomes less yours and more from the person who was inviting you for dinner. What I have an issue with is the corporatization of DTSS. Birchmere is local. IMP is local. Fillmore is not. Live Nation's Fillmore will just be another chain brand in DTSS. Maybe you have no problem with that, but research indicates that money spent at a local business has a compounding factor, where the revenues are spent locally, versus money spent at a chain store which exports revenues out of the county. Live Nation is in the process of vertically integrating and Ticketmaster & Madonna are two prime examples of their excessive expansion. A more recent example is that Live Nation just bought out the largest music promoter in Florida. Silver Spring is ground zero for their expansion into their medium-sized music venues, and the blogs are currently the prime battleground for public discourse related this. So having you pass on words straight from the horse's mouth, you are doing exactly what the world's largest live entertainment corporation wants, and you not getting paid for it, except a free meal here & there. With 4 billion in revenue last year, make sure you ask for a nice steak next time!

~Roger

Thayer Ave., too said...

Bummer. I was looking forward to our very own Silver Spring saloon. It appears that I polished my spurs for nothing.

A few observations:
1) None of the possible companies would be ideal, and certainly none would satisfy everyone,
BUT
2) It appears that Live Nation is the one that the community will need to deal with in the future,
SO
3) It makes sense for community activists to put aside the adversarial relationships of the past and open the lines of communication,
IN ORDER THAT
4) the Live Nation reps "on the ground" in SS know what the hopes and fears of the community are,
WHILE BEARING IN MIND THAT
5) they will never be able to satisfy everyone. (I personally expect to hate at least half of the acts they bring in, but I'm hoping I'll love at least a quarter of the remainder. And I'm still bummed about the saloon thing.)
BUT MAYBE-- JUST MAYBE--
6) If we can face the current reality, stop shouting at Live Nation for not being IMP or anyone else, and explain what we liked about the other organizations and their plans for the site, maybe the community can develop a working relationship with local management that might balance any problems with the parent company.

(Oh, and as soon as the Fillmore gives me an opening date, I'll get on the phone with Bono and be sure he clears his schedule for us.)

Sligo said...

Roger,

Ted didn't actually pay for my - or anyone else's - food (not that I ordered any food).

The Birchmere had years to get the deal with the county finalized and they didn't. I was perfectly happy with that proposed deal, even if I doubt I'd ever go to a Birchmere show - at least until I was 20 years or so older.

I have no problem with the 9:30 club itself, with the possible exception of it's inconvenient location. However, I am convinced (and was so before I ever spoke with Live Nation) that IMP's "interest" in Silver Spring was only predicated on the threat of the addition of a competitive venue. I think if Live Nation pulled out of the process now, we wouldn't hear a peep from IMP about Silver Spring. Why was IMP okay with Birchmere's exclusive negotiations with the County? Because they aren't a direct competitor to the 9:30 club.

Let's say that IMP did get the Silver Spring deal. Would they book the prime acts here or at 9:30? I think we all know the answer to that.

Yes, maybe the Fillmore is a chain, but I'd rather have a chain with premium acts than a "local" venue with the 9:30 Club rejects. Maybe I earned my economics degree awhile ago, but I still remember that competition is GOOD for the consumer - us.

Again, I wanted to just pass along what Live Nation told me. You can judge it on it's own merit. At least they reached out to us - which is more than I can say for IMP. All they did is send copies of letters they submitted to the county. As I mentioned in the original post, Live Nation is also having an "open house" for everyone else - we just happened to meet with them beforehand. Where's IMP's community meeting? All they do is try to rile up the population by trying to gain sympathy solely on the basis of being "local".

Hell, local is not necessarily better - and in many cases quite the opposite is true. I'd ditch most of the stores in City Place for national chains.

And it's interesting to note that national chains have been in the Silver Spring shopping center since it was built - in 1938. If you look closely in the graphic at the top of the page, you'll notice the Piggly Wiggly super market.

Sligo said...

Roger,

One other thing: you say the club Nation was closed down due to drugs?

I went back and checked and actually it was closed because the owner could get a lot for the property on the real estate market.

In fact, I can't find any reference at all to Live Nation running this club in any way. Even if they did, it was economics, not mismanagement that resulted in its closing.

Roger said...

Sligo, in your follow-up comment, NATION was temporarily closed down in May of 1999 when DCFox5 snuck cameras into the club and recorded people doing drugs. Clear Channel did not own the venue, but if my memory serves me, most of the big name bands were booked by Clear Channel (proto-Live Nation). Live Nation was created because people were charging that Clear Channel had monopoly- they owned most of the radio stations AND the venues around the country. Now people are beginning to charge Live Nation with a monopoly on the live music industry because they own and operate more venues than any other corporation.

What is left out in everyone's response is that we giving corporate welfare to a corporation that does not need it! These are my tax dollars as much as yours, and I genuinely do not think that Live Nation deserves the money. Period. With 4 billion dollars in revenue last year, they should be giving DTSS millions, not the other way around!

As for the competition argument, the music industry is one of the few industries where competition hurts customers, not helps. Here is why: Band A wants to play in DC. Promoter A and Promoter B both want Band A to play. Promoter A will pay $10,000, Promoter B says they will pay $20,000. Promoter A counters with $25,000 and Promoter B decided that $30,000 will not bring a return on investment. So Band A goes with Promoter A, but who gets stuck with the bill? YOU the customer. Live Nation is unique because they are the world's largest entertainment company, so they will *always* be able to outbid any competition and will always pass the expense on to you. Worse, is that Live Nation is paying a pittance for rent at the Fillmore. @ $7,5000 a month, they only need to throw one sold out show to make profit each month, every other show each month is financial gravy that is exported out of DTSS.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments.
~Roger

DMZ said...

Didn't Nation have a huge homosexual scene? I feel like I read about that in college. But if they can replicate that in Silver Spring, it'll add sexual-orientation diversity and make the neighborhood nicer, like Du Pont Circle. Shouldn't that make you happy, Roger?

(That's somewhat tongue-in-cheek.)

Sligo, I liked your post. Yeah, grain of salt and all that, but it's good that they're at least reaching out to the SS Internet scene.

Sligo said...

Roger,

FWIW, I think bands have some input as to what their tickets are priced at - it isn't solely at the discretion of the venue.

(Although your argument bolsters my case as to why IMP got involved in the first place.)

Anyway, like I mentioned in the original post, the tickets for shows here won't be particularly expensive.

Anonymous said...

After the shootout at the historic JC Penny Saloon in DTSS, the shootout in which Live Nation shoots IMP dead, it has been reported that IMP's last words were: "I know this long running feud was all but over. If only Sligo had not been such a good lap dog for Live Nation, I might have lived and saved this town from people doing drugs in this watering hole."

Sligo said...

What's funny is that as soon as the lights go down at 9:30 Club shows, at least one person lights up a joint.

Springvale Roader said...

Hurwitz said that Silver Spring is "way out there"?! Is he kidding? Except for a few people, most fans who go to the 9:30 Club have to drive there, and then find parking, and then hope that after the show their car is still there, and/or they make it to their car in one piece.

OTOH, the Fillmore will be a two minute walk from the Silver Spring metro, and walking down Colesville Road will be safe, especially if a big chunk of the crowd is moving along with you.

U2 as the possible premier act? Holy S**T!

Sligo said...

LOL, again the U2 thing was mostly my wishful thinking.

Back in 2000, they did perform at Irving Plaza in New York, which is now a Fillmore. Of course, that's New York.

Springvale Roader said...

Shhh, Sligo: if you laugh it breaks the magic!

Sanjay said...

Roger,
I have to dispute your argument about two promoters bidding up the prices. That would be true if you had comparably sized promoters. In the case of LiveNation vs. IMP, it is entirely likely that they will have more flexibility and complex deals in booking acts (such as booking an entire tour at all their venues) that they won't need to engage in a bidding war with IMP over a single location. So there is no need to fear that high prices are necessarily going to ensue. They have the volume advantage to keep prices affordable.

Seth Hurwitz should be justifiably afraid that he won't be able to compete with corporate clout as an independant promoter, which is why he is trying to keep them out of his turf. In fact, it has been alleged by the owner of Rams Head that Hurwitz has engaged in bullying the competition within the DC-Baltimore music scene, as described in your 'bidding-war' scenario.

chaz said...

Can someone point out exactly where Hurwitz said Silver Spring was "way out there"? I'm not disputing, just wondering. FWIW, I don't think IMP is perfect by any means.

Sanjay, I plead ignorance on exactly how ticket prices are set, but it's the "booking an entire tour at their venues" thing that bothers me about Live Nation. If Live Nation "strongly encourages" a band to play at their venues nationwide, isn't that a monopoly?

Sorry if this double posts.

Sligo said...

The "way out there" statement was attributed to Seth via bands who had also spoken with Live Nation. Do I have audio of Seth making that statement himself? No, but that's why I used the word "reportedly".

Sanjay said...

Chaz, I plead ignorance of the booking process too. I just don't think its as simple as "Band A wants to play in DC., etc" I think that the caliber of acts that Live Nation could afford would be a bigger draw than sloppy seconds from the 9:30 club. Plus, perhaps bands that aren't on Live Nation's roster will continue to play at the 9:30 Club anyway. I look at the entry of the Fillmore as expanding the pie for live music in the DC metro area, not a zero-sum game.

Corporate America said...

I love that the Fillmore is coming, and I love that its a corporation. Maybe it would bring more corporations to force some of the craptastic local chains out of here, like the useless 800 nail and hair salons, the unexplained travel and passport agencies, and the shady ass stores in Shitty Place Mall.

I would love a place like Cancun Cantina in Silver Spring so I actually had something to do on the weekend besides going to Piratz Tavern and convincing myself that it was so awesome because of its localness...like a certain segment of the population.

Since everyone hates corporations so much, why dont we get rid of that corporation Discover Channel and replace it with a local brothel and casino. Sound good?

Anonymous said...

Add Jay-Z to Live Nation's stable of artists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/arts/music/03jayz.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Anonymous said...

Any of you with access to the SOECA listserve should check out today's exchange. That Jay-Z development is reinforcing people's fears about what they see as a negative impact on the neighborhood. Those appealing for some openness are being shouted down by those who prefer more "family-oriented" fare and "settled" audiences.

chaz said...

Now see, THAT's ridiculous criticism of Live Nation. Look out Silver Spring, Jay-z is going to come to town and steal your children!

Thayer Ave., too said...

Just because Live Nation signs Jay Z doesn't mean they're sending him here. They're going to book the bands that will sell the most tickets in a given place. An artist like Jay Z would probably sell enough tickets that he'd be booked in a larger venue.

And if they *do* send Jay Z here, then it means that you should probably already have locked up your kids and stocked up the bunker-- because those rap-loving folks are already here in SS, just waiting to overrun your neighborhood and buy those Fillmore tickets!
[Note the tongue firmly planted in cheek here-- see chaz's similarly cheeky comment above.]

b said...

Jay-Z dosen't scare me as much as their other big star, Madonna. Nothing scares me more than a bunch of pre-teen girls in push up braws, acting like sluts. Time to move to West Virginia.

Anonymous said...

b,
That is bras, not braws, short for brassiere. With spelling like that, are you sure it is not back to your home town in West Virginia?

Thayer ave., too said...

Since Madonna's gotten old and British and scarily buffed, I don't think she's attracting the pre-teen girls the way she did the the good old 80's. I think she's pretty much club-kid remix fare now that you could cut diamonds with her biceps (http://aishamusic.wordpress.com/category/muscles/).

So I think Silver Spring is safe from pushup bras until Britney comes to town.

johnson said...

Jay-z fear mongering=racist.
Also, the trouble concerning Nation, when FauxNews sent hidden cameras, involved only one of the party's which happened every friday night, and had been there since before it was called Nation(if i remember correctly.) It was a Rave-styled party, which has nothing to do with what Fillmore Silver Spring will have going on. more fear mongering. Good job, ever-confident "anonymous."

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